Exhaust Systems

gonzosti Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:49 am

Looking to buy catback exhaust and cant make up my mind on any specific system..What are you running and how do you like it Question

Im leaning towards the invidia Q300 system or Q200, but like how everyones ride with the N1 sounds..Man deciding on a system is exhausting Rolling Eyes

catgut Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:17 pm

gonzosti wrote:deciding on a system is exhausting

I hear you. It took me four months to decide study

I've got the Perrin signature series with resonator and love the fit/finish, build quality, V-band joint, weight savings, overall sound(idle/cruise/WOT), & HP potential support. Price was ok but my choices were limited & I was willing to save a little longer to get what I wanted in the end.

Not sure if this helps (or makes it more complicated). My deciding factors were all of the above in this order I think:

1. Budget $$
2. What's my end-goal target HP?
3. Manufacturer reputation / Warranty
4. Fit & Finish
5. Overall sound (idle/cruise/WOT)
6. Weight

Budget:
Self explanatory - Save longer to get what you really want instead of sacrifice for something cheaper and not to your liking

Target HP:
What do you want to achieve with it? OEM power with a little gain (10~100HP). Larger is nice but also generally LOUDER and adds unnecessary weight & fitment/clearance issues. 76mm (3") is good for a decent HP number most will never spend in other areas to achieve 500+ HP to use all that diameter

Manufacturer / Reputation:
In general, I'm open to a global economy but we know there are certain vendors who suck. I just avoid suckage and look for a reasonable warranty/aftersales support geek

Fit & Finish:
If I'm going to put this on my Subi it needs to be damned good, fit right the first time, doesn't pose a safety issue, enhance appearance (without looking ricey

), easy to find replacement parts for, and exude high quality through and through

Overall Sound (idle/cruise/WOT):
This is a debatable topic but this is my opinion. I wanted to be able to drive into my driveway and not wake the elders but wanted to blow the socks off that cafe' bike at the light and make sure he knew it was a Subi that beat him tongue

We LOVE the boxer unequal length header rumble cheers

I want to bring this sound out when I want to...NOT to attract fan-boys and give GPD a heads-up when I'm 'testing' my Subi pig

I also want to enjoy a decent conversation while cruising and not have to yell in a PeeWee Herman voice just to ask for empanada from my passengers on Marine Drive. Drone = FAIL

From experience and from being a musician I can tell you that the more gentle bends (mandrel bends) in the exhaust (there's a limit of course) these bends help quiet the raspy/harshness of the exhaust note and add really nice overtones to the already awesome sound of a tuned engine. Mellow comes to mind; think equal length headers/exhaust. Straight = harsh (think Harley/dragster).

Weight:
As long as it's lighter than what I'm removing I'm going in the right direction. Some prefer Titanium but in my opinion it's a waste of budget (I'm not aiming to build a featherweight) and besides, it's removing weight from the wrong area of the car (exhausts are low and you generally want to lower your CG not raise it). Also I don't want something that adds ridiculous weight to either end of the car; keep it centered and between the axles for neutral handling afro

SO in short. Get the exhaust you want since we all can't change your mind scratch

J

gonzosti Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:48 am

Thanks Guys your points are greatly appreciated...Fit and finish is high on my list. After reading your advise...maybe i should save more and get a complete system to inclued up and down pipes. I am slowly learing not to rush into a purchase when it comes to my subie and I am currently communicating with IAG performance and gathering info on the systems they carry....Does anyone have the HKS system or seen the fit and finish of it on a subie. Again your pointers and advise are greatly appreciated.

catgut Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:28 am

IAG = great service & prices Very Happy

HKS = worldclass fit & finish. These guys are an awesome tuning outfit as you know. Sound...unsure, never heard one on a boxer except a JGTC Impreza at Suzuka; that's a slice of heaven.

If you're looking for the complete exhaust up, down, mid, and can then you're heading for a stage-2 tune for certain = reflash for ECU to handle the increased flow through your boxer pump Wink

that's another $250~$700 depending on your plan of attack to reflash/tune your ecu. You can go with the cat-back and be done with it but once you get the down-pipe reflash is a must or you'll run into issues (running lean, overboosting, etc.) just ask Jhay. Up-pipe is a nice touch to get rid of that pre-turbo cat which can melt/disintegrate and turn your turbo into a nice little self-contained machine shop

J

gonzosti Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:15 pm

catgut wrote:You can go with the cat-back and be done with it

Thanks J. When adding just the cat-back. What stage is recommended when reflashing with AP. After reading your post and further consideration these are my choices of catback systems.

PERRIN CAT-BACK EXHAUST SINGLE TIP STREET BLACK WRX/STI We started with our already popular PSP-EXT-307 Stainless Exhaust System , and then took it one step further. Using a thermal powdercoating process, we created an entire new look for the system. If you don't want to draw attention to what would have been a bright and shiny exhaust system, then this if for you. The thermal coating not only locks heat in the system to increase exhaust scavenging and flow, it also prevents excessive heat build up under the tunnel of the car. Finally, this prevents unwanted attention from your local law enforcement as well!

HKS HI-POWER CAT BACK EXHAUSTInspired and designed from endurance and GT racing in Japan, HKS developed its Hi-Power Exhaust system for both turbocharged and naturally aspirated applications. HKS has incorporated this new race inspired offset muffler and piping design into many street applications, which offers a greater flow and higher-PRM power gains due to the less restrictive design. This is achieved by eliminating unnecessary bends for the straightest exhaust path.

GREDDY EVO 2 STAINLESS STEEL CAT BACK The full stainless steel EVO2, is GReddy�s most popular cat-back exhaust style. Designed specifically for USA spec vehicles with real JDM quality, styling and performance, the full stainless steel EVO2�s tuned straight-though design offers an incomparable combination of power and sound. With applications for both turbocharged and normally aspirated vehicles, our designers carefully selected piping routing and diameters to link the offset muffler section. When installed on the vehicle, it provides the look of a small race muffler, while still providing excellent sound suppression for daily commutes and deep throaty tone under full accelerations and competition use.

I figured that the Invidia Q300 is a great system if my Subie would be a daily driver, but with performance in mind and wanting that well known subie burble to come out loud and clear during time attack sessions one of these systems will serve my purpose.

catgut Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:29 pm

Np gonzo,

Cat-back only you can get away with no reflash or step up to stage-1...wait, do you already have an AP? Twisted Evil

Nice choices, personally I think the HKS will be loudest.

Lately down-pipes are really coming down in cost (especially your model year) and most are decent build quality. For a little more you can get a nice DP with the cat-back and reflash with a pro-tuned stage-2 which will help your spool/boost threshold and give you nice mid-range & top-end Laughing

J

gonzosti Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:36 am

Yes i have an AP and loving it, probably the best investment i made for my subie. With that said, i will piece build and purchase the cat-back first, then look into DP's. Thanks again for the direction and i'll check you back on flashes for AP when needed. Cool

sinR Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:48 am

Make a statement!! I vote HKS;)

catgut Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:00 am

When you're ready with DP and a high-flow panel filter, check out Clark Turner for your reflash Wink

You won't be disappointed.

J

WRB04STi Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:38 pm

Im running a HKS dp only because Im running an ewg with an Invidia N1 street catback. Before I went with the ewg set up I was running an Invidia bellmouth dp. It still sounds awesome with both dp's

gonzosti Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:21 am

After much thought and help / guidance for all of you at SCG and Rick of IAG Performance. Invidia N1 street cat back purchased from IAG. Chosen for it's fit and finish, overall cost and great reviews from the likes of you and vendors. Can't wait to rev my subie. Twisted Evil

catgut Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Sweetness

Also, a little factoid you should be aware of. Your future DP will also influence your exhaust note/how intense it will sound. i.e. - uncatted DP usually = louder when compared to a catted DP. Also, another factoid is that you must ensure that your tune/pro-tune is made for the type of DP you choose.

Keith mentioned this sometime ago and it makes sense; if your DP is uncatted you have effectively removed some of the engineered back-pressure/resistance. This is great except if your tune is for a catted-type now your boost map may not accurately/effectively control boost since the turbo will spool quicker and may overboost ( like a waste-gate that stays shut a millisecond too long). Overboost is generally unsafe most especially if your tune doesn't compensate with enough fuel to support the additional airflow. Bell-mouth, siamesed, or straight-flange will affect flow too.

Insufficient fuel = LEAN....NOT good Evil or Very Mad

especially for ring-lands made of glass, spark plug tips, your wallet, comfortable bed to sleep on, etc. Shocked

Just making sure your informed of the little devil details that'll cost you in the long run if not anticipated

Just get the right tune.

J

gonzosti Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:19 am

catgut wrote:Sweetness

Also, a little factoid you should be aware of. Your future DP will also influence your exhaust note/how intense it will sound. i.e. - uncatted DP usually = louder when compared to a catted DP. Also, another factoid is that you must ensure that your tune/pro-tune is made for the type of DP you choose.

Keith mentioned this sometime ago and it makes sense; if your DP is uncatted you have effectively removed some of the engineered back-pressure/resistance. This is great except if your tune is for a catted-type now your boost map may not accurately/effectively control boost since the turbo will spool quicker and may overboost ( like a waste-gate that stays shut a millisecond too long). Overboost is generally unsafe most especially if your tune doesn't compensate with enough fuel to support the additional airflow. Bell-mouth, siamesed, or straight-flange will affect flow too.

Insufficient fuel = LEAN....NOT good especially for ring-lands made of glass, spark plug tips, your wallet, comfortable bed to sleep on, etc.

Just making sure your informed of the little devil details that'll cost you in the long run if not anticipated Just get the right tune.

J

Thanks J. Future DP is most defiante and coming soon. Question

What are the Pros and Cons of each DP shape; Bell-Mouth vs. Siamesed vs. Straight-Flanged if any Question

Are any of you running an Up Pipe or Headers? Question

SupaTwIggs Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:55 pm

Hey dude if you are still lookin for a catback exhaust i am gonna be sellin mine here soon... its a top fuel zero power stainless steel catback... its nice just not exactly what i wanted. Let me know and if you are interested you can come by and take a look at it if you want...

gonzosti Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:01 pm

SupaTwIggs wrote:Hey dude if you are still lookin for a catback exhaust i am gonna be sellin mine here soon... its a top fuel zero power stainless steel catback... its nice just not exactly what i wanted. Let me know and if you are interested you can come by and take a look at it if you want...

Thanks but i had already made the purchase. Wish your post would have come up earlier. How much are you letting it go for?

**tempest24** Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:22 am

just go powerhouse amuse! but thats jdm length so you have to get a catless downpipe and a jdm length exhaust manifold....

so the plans should be:
- tomei exhaust manifold JDM length with up-pipe kit about $780
- tomei downpipe catless JDM length about $480
- powerhouse amuse full catback about $2800

than you have to worry about shipping...

lol... these are my plans...but after the coilovers and brakes...lol

**tempest24** Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:57 am

GuamSTI wrote:
tempest24 wrote:just go powerhouse amuse! but thats jdm length so you have to get a catless downpipe and a jdm length exhaust manifold....

so the plans should be:
- tomei exhaust manifold JDM length with up-pipe kit about $780
- tomei downpipe catless JDM length about $480
- powerhouse amuse full catback about $2800

than you have to worry about shipping...

lol... these are my plans...but after the coilovers and brakes...lol

dang, dibbs on your OEM brakes ok.

sure thing...i think my OEM struts are spoken for as well...lol

catgut Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:05 pm

gonzosti wrote:Thanks J. Future DP is most defiante and coming soon. What are the Pros and Cons of each DP shape; Bell-Mouth vs. Siamesed vs. Straight-Flanged if any Are any of you running an Up Pipe or Headers?

Np, easy. For more DP info check this thread out http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445812

For clarification siamesed = split bellmouth

I didn't include the divorced type in my initial post but as you will learn no real gains over either bellmouth or divorced. The idea is to get a smooth transition after the turbo. Beware that some siamesed/split bellmouth type DPs may cause interference with the wastegate doors on some turbos (wastegate door will hit splitter causing binding or insufficient bypass causing boost creep). Just read articles from those with experience with the product or just ask the salesperson if any known issues exist with running a particular type of DP with your car. OEM turbos shouldn't be an issue really, larger stock location turbos are more prone to this.

Get a decent bellmouth DP and you should be fine. If you are planning on dabbling with tuning in the future (open source, stand-alone, etc.) I'd recommend you get a DP with an O2 sensor bung at the bellmouth so you can add an aftermarket AF sensor when you're ready.

J

catgut Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:18 pm

^^^^Uppipes are almost a necessity for your model year if you are considering upgrading. You have a catalytic converter in the uppipe. Since this is at the turbine inlet you run the chance of the element melting/disintegrating and damaging your turbo. Catless uppipes are popular just get a quality unit with a thick flange that's resistant to warping/leakage. 321 stainless is great. Thermal coated or wrapped is recommended to keep the heat in.

Headers...always a nice addition IF you get a quality unit. Careful, stay away from mild steel or subpar units that corrode most especially if running header wrap. A good thermal coating (in and out) is nice so you keep the exhaust energy within the header main tubes. Typically you want a high quality 321 stainless construction. Cracking and corrosion is your worry with headers. Really, with a stock turbo the stock manifold is fine.

As a side note, if you do get headers also consider that if you get an equal length-type you will lose your boxer burble but usually gain a few HP/TQ Wink

I'll keep my burble.

J

SupaTwIggs Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:07 am

Gonzo im actually selling it for about $400. So if anyone knows someone looking for a decent exhaust send em my way.

catgut Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:14 am

^^What model year is the Top Fuel exhaust for? Gonzo has an '07 I think

J

gonzosti Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:01 am

Invidia exhaust arrived. Thing looks sweet. Can't wait for install and to finally hear my subies true sound. Progress to be posted.

subantha Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:33 am

wow nice post pics

mine lol..w/pedo'bear Razz

Exhaust Systems 190134_10150128498492328_508177327_6436885_1240654_n

subantha Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:35 am

rofl i jst noticed im expired ahhaha! oh boy Shocked

gonzosti Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:46 am

Installed. Wife says it's too loud. Told her I needed a better sound system. Next purchase sounds. Win win situation. cheers

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